Hello and welcome to this very special Slack Chat. Worlds is just around the corner, and we’re writing this on the eve of 1st October (aka Armageddon). To see out the old meta and usher in the new, myself and four other Netrunners are going to be playing a game of Buy/Sell/Hold as we try and figure out what the next few months of competitive Netrunner is going to look like. Here’s the story so far:
The year is 2*17, and four industrious traders have just received word of an impending Most Wanted List about to hit the Net, with some big names on the chopping block. The Fake Financial Trading Markets are already in turmoil with the recently announced so-called “rotato” and “core 2.0” M&As that have dominated recent casts, so it’s a perfect time for our traders to make a few extra TT Credits using this new insider information…
For our readers, this is what the terminology we’ll be using means:
- Buy means “I believe this faction is in a better position compared to other factions than it was before rotation/Core 2/restricted list”
- Sell means “I believe this faction is now weaker compared to the other factions”
- Hold means “I believe it’s about the same” or alternately “I have no idea so I’m hedging”.
Before we begin, a quick run down of the stats from Know The Meta, which we’ll use as our baseline. Prior to any implementation of rotation, Core 2 or Ban/Restricted list, the faction split of the Top 30% of corps decks at tournaments that took place during the last 3 data packs looked like this:
- Haas-Bioroid – 38%
- Jinteki – 31%
- NBN – 17%
- Weyland -14%
And for the runners:
- Anarch – 43%
- Shaper – 28%
- Criminal – 27%
- Minifaction – 1.3%
circadia (Sam Burdock): Any surprises there?
callmedutch (Rufus Eyre-Varnier): seems about right
ouroboros (Dan Strong): More than 1% minis!?
circadia: Yeah Sunny was crushing it in like… two tournaments?
callmedutch: some people like to dream Dan
ouroboros: I think I might expect NBN to be a bit higher
sync was well placed
but it wasn’t that prevalent
guy.patching (Guy Patching): Sometimes you have to factor in the “cool” factor. NBN wasn’t a “cool” thing to take to a GNK / SC if you wanted to be different you’d do something different. Some of these tournaments were not super intense nationals.
nemamiah (Chris Dyer): That’s in line with what I saw for the past three months
Though I suspect if you just looked at the last data pack Criminal would be well above Shaper
ouroboros: Oh huh, shaper were above criminal?
callmedutch: yeah Lock Hayley and co took a real dive later on
circadia: Chris is correct, Crimson Dust was good for Criminal
nemamiah: Shaper were above criminal were until The Great and Powerful Turtle came out
the turtle that would be king
circadia: Well on that note, let’s crack on! Ding ding! (That’s the trading floor bell, obv.) First up – the corps.
guy.patching: (ALL HAIL THE BELL)
circadia: Let’s begin with the green-haired stepchild of competitive netrunner. Weyland – buy/sell/hold?
ouroboros: BUY BUY BUY BABY
nemamiah: Buy buy buy!
guy.patching: I’ll buy, but with neither capitals nor repetition.
circadia: Go on Guy, why the reticence?
guy.patching: I think we’re going to go through a very brief period where everyone will laugh and say that Weyland are now the faction to fear tags in, and burn some yellow, and they’ll regret doing that once someone turns their fiendish attention back to NBN. So Weyland will be left with the 7th point problem, and it will be not as great at finishing as other factions
That said I’m still a “buy”, just think it’ll be a readjustment rather than a zoomzoom climb
ouroboros: I certainly won’t be buying stock in weyland kill decks
callmedutch: I think Guy, you’re underestimating how good Skorp is right now
callmedutch: Don deck is basically untouched by changes no?
ouroboros: Don’s skorp rush is fearsome, and I personally think Titan FA is also a deck to be feared
nemamiah: My position is based on the fact that I really didn’t rate any Weyland decks before rotation. There was just too much hate around
But now there’s much less Strike, probably less Critic, and Weyland didn’t lose anything relevant
circadia: When I think about Weyland I think about three broad archetypes, Garg HHN prison, Titan FA and Skorp Rush. Those all seem fairly well placed after the changes? But they all have hate too.
callmedutch: oh yeah Gaga is still good too bluergh
with only Museum on the Restricted list they can have that and Whampoa + Preemptive to provide recursion
nemamiah: Titan fast advance and Skorp rush feel like the most ‘obvious’ decks from October for me. Doesn’t necessarily mean they’re the best, but lots of people will play them
I’m not buying Gagarin though
I think people are probably underestimating how significant Mumbad City Hall was to Gagarin decks
ouroboros: Yeah I don’t think Weyland will be the dominant faction by any stretch, but it has tier 1/1.5 decks now, whereas pre-rotation it just had nothing
guy.patching: I am working on the principle that it was still winning 14% of Top 30. I think it’ll cap out at around 20-25% . And I think it’ll do that in Skorp, and possibly mad Jemison.
circadia: Bold prediction on Jem there. I’d love to see that happen
guy.patching: If I make 20-30 bold predictions then in six months time I can point to the one that’s right, nod sagely, and go “I’m a genius”
ouroboros: It’s worth noting as well that the banlist helps Titan a lot
as runners now basically have to choose between critic, strike and clot lock
rather than packing all 3
nemamiah: The only argument against Titan is that your worst matchup is Shaper, and that’s probably not where you want to be right now
circadia: Moving onto the scourge of Worlds 2016… NBN – buy/sell/hold?
nemamiah: Hold, with a slightly optimistic outlook
Dan, you’re the odd one out
What’s wrong with our favourite news network?
ouroboros: Pre-rotation there was precisely one good NBN deck: Fiery Sync
Sync is dead
callmedutch: as we know it
ouroboros: That said banning Aaron makes a big difference, and Sol and CTM may be making a comeback
but I remain skeptical
to be honest with you I’m verging on a hold
circadia: I was gonna say re: CTM, table scoring AR Enhanced Security in CTM could be crushing
nemamiah: I kind of agree with Dan, but the difference is that before there were no great NBN decks, one very good one and no good ones
Now there are no great or very good ones, but maybe three or four good ones?
So the faction is weaker at the top end, but deeper in options than it was before
ouroboros: That’s a good point Chris, although the maximum power of an NBN deck has probably decreased, the average may have risen
callmedutch: are we all forgetting that NBN has the best card for 0 inf, Special Report!
ouroboros: You and that card
it’s not good Rufus
guy.patching: I think you’ve got to look at the amount of cards that used to sit on the table and the NBN player would go “well, this is terrible and I hate my opponent” that are now gone away.
circadia: Absolutely, Astro and News disappearing makes NBN far less threatening as a faction
guy.patching: NACH – Marron – Temujin – Moose . All huge new for a faction that wants to say “You’re at risk of a tag problem here, you’ll need money”
callmedutch: I agree but runner econ has been destroyed as well, plus Mopus is on the restricted list
nemamiah: It’s hard to overstate just how bad Aaron was for NBN, no matter how fond of hyperbole you are. Even though the card it was designed to shut down, Breaking News, is gone, the fact that Aaron is banned makes me feel a lot better about the faction
circadia: A huge thing to consider is that every corp deck is getting a 3 inf bump because of Jackson going
Except for NBN
callmedutch: well its 3 inf bump from Breaking News sam
ouroboros: That’s true to an extent, Sam
but corps will probably still need to splash for some flooding mitigation in most cases
callmedutch: but my Special Report
ouroboros: Miraju stock is going through the roof right now.
guy.patching: Its a bubble.
callmedutch: all hail Dans Miraju tactics
nemamiah: As an aside, can I buy all the stock in Preemptive Action and hold a fire sale on all other Jackson ‘replacements’?
circadia: No, because you can’t buy stock in neutral cards
That’s like… buying stock in the government or something
nemamiah: Bonds, you mean
ouroboros: So it’s government bonds?
circadia: Whatever, I didn’t think the analogy through
nemamiah: Anyway, I think the point that NBN need a ‘victory condition’ is absolutely correct
guy.patching: See I think there’s a point at which a game where they runner is tagged to high heaven and NBN can exchange at will makes the runner victory condition a lot trickier as well, and puts NBN far more in control of the game than we might suspect
nemamiah: The problem is that most runners can let NBN get to five points
At which point they’re so setup that you’ll never be able to reach that ‘tag hell’
ouroboros: I mean who knows, with runner econ tanked, they might even be able to score out… behind ice!
dum dum DUUUUUM
circadia: Sol Glacier is an archetype that will be revisited, I’m sure
(Iced Lemonade decks, I call them)
ouroboros: Scarcity of Resources is pretty brutal right now.
nemamiah: Yeah, Scarcity has never looked better
guy.patching: I don’t think a runner that is “set up” looks as dominant as it once did
With the loss of huge econ cards and the Medium delivery system now offline
And corps being willing to spend on big ice
I think the idea of a crushing end of game board state is really difficult
circadia: Yeah, you choose between Opus or clot lock, can’t have both
ouroboros: I don’t know, Congress Kate style durdle-shapers look pretty scary
there’s still a lot of runner drip econ
I suppose the hope is that Weyland will outpace them
nemamiah: All the explosive, reliable and early economy is gone, but that just means that it takes longer to set that oppressive board state up
If you give them time to establish it it’s still just as oppressive as it ever was
ouroboros: I agree with Chris here
nemamiah: And you have worse tools to counter it
callmedutch: I feel like we’re getting off topic
guy.patching: Aye. I think I’ll just agree to disagree with the world champ
circadia: Let’s move on before Rufus brings up Special Report again. Next up: Jinteki – buy/sell/hold?
ouroboros: This is a tough one… sell I think
nemamiah: Yeah, I’ll sell
But with the caveat that I tend to chronically underrate Personal Evolution decks
ouroboros: Where’s our :crying-caprice: emoji
I’m in denial about PE
nemamiah: We can get flatlined together, Dan
callmedutch: I almost got you Dan, even with Caldera out
circadia: Who are you buying stock in, Guy?
guy.patching: I think the reason that I’m keenest to buy is that I’m not specifying just one ID. PE basically got to write a lot of the current changes. Meanwhile all of a sudden Aginfusion is saying “Are you really going to take Employee Strike as your chosen card” and a variety of decks are still sitting on Marcus Batty in a world where Shapers are having to think hard about Clone Chips.
It has too many weird vectors of attack, and too many potentially huge IDs, to not want to buy it right now
circadia: Yeah that’s huge – Aginfusion got a big bump, no?
callmedutch: yeah Excalibur cheese worries me
ouroboros: I strongly disagree that Aginfusion got a bump
Caprice is so core to jinteki glacier, and the turtle makes Excalibur very sad.
nemamiah: So my sell is based on the fact that before, AgInfusion was pretty good, IG was playable and there was some net damage stuff that might catch people out.
Now Aginfusion is still pretty good, IG is unplayable and there is some net damage stuff that might catch people out
circadia: IG is a super interesting one
Because people were saying that it was going to be the deck to beat
ouroboros: They were?
nemamiah: I was all in on IG until the MWL update gutted its agenda suite
circadia: That’s it, right
Loss of Obo and GFI just killed it
nemamiah: And you’ve lost Fetal to rotation, so you can’t even compensate for that
circadia: I don’t even know what an IG agenda suite would look like, it’s that bad
3 TFPs and…
ouroboros: uuuh braintrust?
callmedutch: 3 Obo 3 TFP 1 Philotic?
ouroboros: And no Bioethics?
guy.patching: If you’ll excuse me I have a tiny violin to play for IG
nemamiah: All Shapers will have multiple Sac Cons, by the way. Batty cheese is much worse than it used to be, and you really don’t want to be firing that dude for a simple end the run
I do still think AgInfusion is good though
callmedutch: Palana is still ok imo
circadia: I think the main idea is to fire Batty with an Excal, then Bump or Nisei
Yeah weirdly I’ve seen lots of Palana since MWL update
What’s that about?
ouroboros: Good rush ID
nemamiah: Econ IDs are good
callmedutch: Panic Pal, Sam
guy.patching: I think you may well see lots of Sac Cons, I’d agree, but its just another thing Shaper have to have on the board before challenging a Nisei. and all of the time they’re doing that they’re not getting credits
But again I feel I digress
circadia: We’ll get to Shaper…
(said every competitive player ever)
nemamiah: You can’t play Netrunner in a vacuum
ouroboros: One day Chris
one day my dreams of space netrunner will be realised
I’ll be the first person to play netrunner in a vacuum
guy.patching: (also, as an aside, Jinteki ice suite unhit)
nemamiah: It’s better, right?
callmedutch: I wouldn’t run chiyashi right now
nemamiah: Kakugo and Komainu are unholy terrors
ouroboros: Kakugo, what a god-awful oppressive mistake ice
guy.patching: That’s what I meant by “unhit” I meant “unhit by Parasite”
ouroboros: I like that Komainu is good again though
circadia: Faerie and Sunny breakers still exist for Komainu
But Kakugo… yeah
ouroboros: Your kakugo answer is basically caldera/feedback filter
Shame net filter rotated huh
guy.patching: … net Shield
nemamiah: I think every single Jinteki deck takes OboPro as its restricted card
ouroboros: that agenda is bonkers
guy.patching: I think some PE will take Bioethics
But you won’t know it until its too late
ouroboros: nah seems bad tbh
bioethics is cute, but obokata is so solid in PE
circadia: I think you’d be more likely to see Bioethics in PU
Because of the double dipping
guy.patching: Well feel free to run my facedown remotes to check..
circadia: No thanks…
ouroboros: installs Caldera
circadia: And the giant of 2017… until now?! Haas-Bioroid – buy/sell/hold?
guy.patching: Sell, but keep the bulk of the stock.
nemamiah: Yeah, agree with Guy
ouroboros: Are you really saying you think HB is better now Rufus?
For the record I also agree with Guy
circadia: Explain yourself Rufus!
guy.patching: grabs pitchforks
callmedutch: HB is still really strong rn
the Fairchildren have come out to play
ouroboros: Sure it’s ok but it’s not Moons Rufus!
You’re a madman
you’ll be ruined
nemamiah: Moons and CI were streets ahead of every other Corp pre rotation
They were so obviously the best decks that it wasn’t even funny
guy.patching: I will say that we’re all about to see a lot of MCA Austerity policy
callmedutch: CI spam decks are making waves on jnet
circadia: So if you think NBN’s stock has dropped off with no scoring plan, Weyland you may still have reason to doubt, and Jinteki is about the same… HB is still king?
ouroboros: I think even if HB is still king it’s a clear sell
guy.patching: Yeah. what you’re saying is that it’ll be around 40%+ of top decks
And that’s a big ask for any faction
nemamiah: I think HB are still good, there’s about four different viable CI builds
That’s why it’s not a hard sell
But I don’t think you can overstate how good they were before
ouroboros: Yeah no one’s saying HB are bad, but there’s absolutely no way they’re better than they were pre-rotation
callmedutch: I will make it my mission to make AoT good
guy.patching: I don’t think it’ll be a hard mission by any stretch
circadia: AoT can get bonkers pretty quickly, I’ve found
I think it’ll win games, rather than just (in the hands of the right player) absolutely crush games, like it did in the moons hayday
circadia: Like I’d venture to say it’s the second best HB ID
nemamiah: I can get on board with that, Sam
ouroboros: Yeah I agree with that assessment also.
nemamiah: Especially because 12 influence hurts much less than it used to
callmedutch: I think getting 20 creds off CFC Excavation is pretty nuts
ouroboros: Best Case Evaluation Rufus strikes again
guy.patching: Like, can I tell a quick anecdote, it’s about Chris?
nemamiah: Book clock!
ouroboros: Book clock!
circadia: Does it involve whispers Brainstorm?
guy.patching: No. Brainstorm is a secret tech that shall remain secret..
nemamiah: (I broke a Brainstorm at Nats. Brings my total record to 4 Brainstorms rezzed against me, 15 brain damage suffered)
guy.patching: I’m watching the final of BABW at Reading
And its Chris versus Jonny. Chris is attacking Jonny’s Moons
And not long into it he siphons HQ with a rezzed Caprice
To me, the reason you sell HB right now is that you’re not seeing decks that are going to tell the very best players in the game “do utterly mad things, because the only way you win this is by doing really bold high risk plays”
That’s my book clock. And I am hoping it is illustrative of the point
circadia: What’s a book clock?
ouroboros: story time
guy.patching: Story time!
ouroboros: it’s a meme!
circadia: But let’s talk about Moons in CI
Because… you have VLC to create absurd power plays with SFT
nemamiah: It’s still pretty good, right?
But not mind bendingly ridiculous like it used to be
circadia: And Restore is an ok card
callmedutch: is archived mem still in core?
callmedutch: yeah CI seems good
nemamiah: That’s why CI is still good, because in a game low on explosive economy cards the Clearances are way above the baseline
And it’s why is flexible, because playing those six cards enables you to do almost anything you want
ouroboros: So, I’m not the greatest deckbuilder, but I find that moons CI decks struggle to get a good number of assets in after slotting all the clearances
I think going ahead we might just see CI going all-in on op econ more than using assets
circadia: I think you can build it with just VLC and standard moons asset spam. But I’m not good at moons, so I wouldn’t know…
callmedutch: tbf i only played 1 CI recently and it was Ashigaru + Slee combo
circadia: Did you die Rufus?
circadia: Uh oh…
callmedutch: I forgot Slee was a thing
ouroboros: I’ve been seeing a lot of Stinson CI
but also probably ok?
circadia: That’s important though
Is it Sandburg CI? Ashigaru? Moons? Some weird 7 point combo?
They’re all viable-ish
nemamiah: Yeah, I’d expect CI to be just as dominant in faction as ETF ever was, at least for the near future
circadia: Ok! To wrap our corp discussion, let’s have a quick round of over/under for predicting the World’s meta. Over meaning more likely or more prevalent, and under meaning less likely/less prevalent.
Asset spam will make up 50% of decks on day 2 at this year’s worlds – over/under?
nemamiah: Way under
ouroboros: yeah quite substantially under
circadia: Whizzard, you did your job
And now you may rest
ouroboros: I mean really the restricted list did most of the work
the wildcard here is that if someone makes CTM good it might be over
guy.patching: That said. I think there will be decks with 4-5 remotes
Just… not 20
circadia: Redefining spam… I like it.
nemamiah: Right, I have quite a high bar to clear before you get to spam
So CtM never qualified as asset spam in my mind
circadia: Next one:
There’s a 20% chance we’ll all be getting full art Project Atlas next year when Weyland wins worlds – over/under?
callmedutch: less than 20% guy!!!
I think its 25-30%
guy.patching: Yep. more like 10
ouroboros: hmm I need to think about this one
I’m going to go over I think
circadia: I have no idea what Push means, but I’m guessing it means you’re fence sitting and I don’t like it
nemamiah: By ‘push’ I mean that I think the line is almost exactly right
ouroboros: I suspect weyland will be the second best faction
guy.patching: I think Skorp right now is what NBN was before the 2015 Worlds.
It’s what they’ll play on the plane
nemamiah: As of a week ago I would have definitely said over
But I’m cooling on Weyland quite rapidly
circadia: Last one, for funsies: there’s a 33% chance that a psi game of some variety will decide at least one game in the cut at worlds – over/under?
guy.patching: WAY over
nemamiah: Yeah, over
ouroboros: uh under?
what are you guys talking about?
circadia: Ok, but WHAT psi game?
circadia: On a what?
guy.patching: Batty AND Voter Intimidation
circadia: Ooh, VI
ouroboros: I’m not sold on this
circadia: That’s fine Dan, I didn’t ask you to buy
guy.patching: My heart says Batty on Inazuma, but my brain say Excalibur
nemamiah: For bonus points; it’ll be Batty to trigger a Fairchild 2 sub to inflict a brain damage that makes the game winning OboPro unstealable
That’s how you make a bold prediction, folks
circadia: Halfway through the trading day, and it’s time to talk runners.
Let’s begin with Big Blue Criminals – buy/sell/hold?
nemamiah: Huh, I thought I was going to the odd one out here
circadia: Holders, what’re you waiting for?!
ouroboros: are criminals good? who even knows?
so Siphon is gone which is
they’re still ok?
callmedutch: yeah its tough right
nemamiah: Criminal used to have one good deck that was okay against the field and literally nothing else
nemamiah: That’s exactly the position they’re in now
Only it’s a different deck
nemamiah: Yeah, the big shirtless doofus
guy.patching: Geist is a minifaction with blue cards
I’d agree that those decks have a real boost
But I don’t think it makes up for the loss of Andy decks
Which, let’s face it, were everywhere
circadia: You could say the same about Garg being a minifaction though
callmedutch: Geist has the Miraju problem
which he has no real answer for
circadia: And the scarcity problem
ouroboros: You know I just completely forgot Geist
with him in the mix I might be a buy!
guy.patching: Andy was the “I don’t know what to play but want to be competitive” runner for many a tournament
nemamiah: North American players seemed to rate Andy much higher than we did in the UK, so might disagree with this assessment
But although she was popular I don’t think it was a great deck
guy.patching: It made an effective Medium delivery system
And that was always a great play, especially around middle tables
ouroboros: I think Andy was a good all-rounder deck, so she was good in a varied meta
guy.patching: It was a great “screw your jank” end game
circadia: KTM says Crims were slightly overrepresented in the general field than the top 30%
But not by a huge amount
ouroboros: the trouble is the UK meta was moons as far as the eye can see, and Andy didn’t love that matchup
nemamiah: While we’re on Criminal, I’ll buy stocks in Turtle all day
That card is going to be in about 70% of decks
circadia: Turtle is great but… it’s not really a Crim card at one inf
callmedutch: all hail our new turtle overlord
ouroboros: I have mixed feelings about turtle to be honest
it’s certainly strong
but also perhaps easy to tech for?
callmedutch: yeah IP block is kinda hurting it
circadia: CVS in archives too
ouroboros: IP block, CVS, icing all your centrals with anything str 3 or over really
and that’s not even getting into the other anti-AI ice
nemamiah: It’s so good that you play it despite all this tech though
ouroboros: Yeah I think you’re probably right Chris
guy.patching: I think Crims are going to struggle to control anything that can Fast advance, they’re going to struggle to win econ wars, they’re going to struggle to get the right influence split
circadia: Econ is the big thing for Crims, I agree
They got hurt the most economically
nemamiah: I’ve yet to see anything approaching a competitive Criminal deck that isn’t Geist
guy.patching: And I can’t see a lot of reason for corps to not take Scarcities
As it’ll hurt nearly every runner they’re going to play and hate
callmedutch: I think Tony Oxford is ok
circadia: (That’s Steve Cambridge for those readers who don’t know our Slack jokes)
ouroboros: he’s not terrible, but he’s tier 2 at most I think
nemamiah: Maxwell James is a crazy card, though. That’s something that the faction has
ouroboros: Maxwell is great
guy.patching: When we start seeing news cards I am looking forward to crims, and I think they’ll rise, but as a “snapshot” they’re just taken brutal damage
And I can’t see a lot of reason for corps to not take Scarcities
circadia: Scarcity is basically at war with Magnum Opus though
So long as one exists, the other is pointless
guy.patching: I completely disagree
Because you’re making Sac Cons cost 2 credits, at the very least
ouroboros: I think the other thing about scarcity is that outside of Sol it’s probably easier to clear, because it’s harder to manage flood
one legwork will do it a lot of the time
circadia: Moving on… Whizzard got boomed, but what about the rest of his brethren? Anarchs – buy/sell/hold?
ouroboros: SELL THEM ALL
nemamiah: Sell, but not everything
guy.patching: Sell, but it’s not junk .
ouroboros: oh well ok maybe not everything
nemamiah: Wow Rufus
circadia: Let’s put it like this… Rufus – how many cards do they have to ban for you to sell Anarch?
ouroboros: Rufus is nuts and has no conception of relative strength ()
Anarch till I die
ouroboros: A quiz for the readers: can you guess Rufus’s favourite factions?
nemamiah: I think my take is that Anarch had what, four top tier decks pre rotation?
callmedutch: Anarch still has a lot of power at its disposal
circadia: So let’s talk about the upshot – econ denial is now much better in Anarch than Crim, isn’t it?
guy.patching: I think econ denial will be Los, for what its worth
nemamiah: Anarch have better central pressure than any other faction
I initially thought they were totally unplayable, but that econ denial and disruption give you something
But I’m not sure it’s quite there and anyway all Anarch decks kind of look the same right now
ouroboros: I’m not sure I agree with that assessment Sam
Mining Accident is decent, but shutdown is more impactful a lot of the time
guy.patching: I think the reason I am keeping some of my Anarch stock is the HQ hand size pressure, Omar, and they still have cards that let you access crazy amounts of cards
callmedutch: Val, Omar and Maxx are all tier 1 imo
I cry everytime I look at MaxX
ouroboros: also mad
callmedutch: Maxx has 1 problem
which is stupid skorp
circadia: And no Deja
ouroboros: MaxX has one problem, the best deck in the second best faction
which is completely unbeatable to her!
what could possibly go wrong
circadia: MaxX has to take Levy which means no Strike, no Opus
guy.patching: Nah just take Trope, It’ll be fine
nemamiah: Maw and Bhagat are really good cards, in my opinion
Wait, I just saw what Rufus said
nemamiah: That’s a hot take and a half
ouroboros: Chris is much more polite than I am
guy.patching: Many people are
ouroboros: True that.
callmedutch: all posers the lot of you, Anarch is glad to be rid of you
circadia: Let’s talk Maw
ouroboros: Go away Maw
I’m trying to FA this Atlas
nemamiah: It’s the best card in the faction now
circadia: Best console right now y/n?
ouroboros: Yeah it’s brutal
guy.patching: Yes. But not by a huge margin
callmedutch: I like Obelus as well
but Maw is super strong
nemamiah: It’s so good that I’ve seen it in all three factions
ouroboros: I mean I may be overrating it because I have almost exclusively been playing Titan FA and can I just say ugh maw ugh
circadia: Can’t Audacity if you don’t have cards
ouroboros: The combo with Turtle is real
As Lukas intended
guy.patching: I think Anarchs will become the faction that just messes with your stuff. Which is great
But they’re not going to be capable of building an oppressive board state any more
Which is why you sell stock
callmedutch: yeah ICE destruction with Cutlery still hurts
circadia: Yeah, I like that now Anarchs won’t be the faction of “take a broken card from another faction and play it with Deja”
But that doesn’t make me want to buy them
ouroboros: Knifed is now officially the best answer to Kakugo
nemamiah: Much like HB, they were so far and away the best faction before
They’re nowhere near that now
So it has to be a sell
circadia: Moving onto Shapers – buy/sell/hold?
nemamiah: Buy buy buy
callmedutch: I want to sell cos I hate Smoke, but I’ll hold
But not thrice
ouroboros: yeah I’m not massively enthusiastic about this
nemamiah: I am
circadia: I feel like Guy was the outlier in Corps, and Rufus is the boat-rocker for Runners
callmedutch: like what does shaper have beside smoke?
nemamiah: Hayley and Ayla are both possible
guy.patching: They’re currently the “I don’t know what to play” faction so they’ll get the numbers but I think people will play them reactively, and not always have a game plan. That’s a recipe for disaster
Exile got a lot of love in Core 2.0
ouroboros: The restricted list has shaken up shaper a huge amount
circadia: So ok – they got so many things on the restricted list, so I have to know – what are you all buying?
nemamiah: Film Critic
callmedutch: Film Critic
nemamiah: Or maybe Strike
guy.patching: See this is what’s surprisng
People have been saying “Mopus economy” as an answer all through corp
And what are they saying they’ll slot?
circadia: Critic is a bad card for bad players but whatever, I’m just running this show
Yeah I know Guy – I don’t get that either
Critic is way down on the priority list for me
ouroboros: Have you read obokata protocol?
circadia: Play a Diesel, git gud
nemamiah: I hope you enjoy purging Tapwrms
Because you’re going to be doing that a lot very soon
guy.patching: I agree Tapwrms will be a thing
But if runners rely on them they’re in trouble
I think Shapers have to take Imp
ouroboros: That’s an interesting thought
But Imp with no clone chips?
circadia: Pretty sure you run it with clones
Instead of Critic
(There’s an idea for a deck name: Clones ain’t Critics)
callmedutch: I had a Mopus CT scavenge their Mopus to get an SMC, to challenge my server with a double advanced Obo in it….. while they only had 3 cards in hand
it was a delight as corp
ouroboros: I think the only legit shaper deck right now is Smoke, really
and Smoke wants critic over the other two
nemamiah: Let’s also talk about a sightly scary prospect; there’s always the possibility that there’s a really dumb game breaking combo deck out there, and if it exists it’s in Shaper
circadia: Well, Ayla got close to that with Cold Ones
ouroboros: Maybe it’ll be crim next
guy.patching: To be fair the last one was in Anarch
nemamiah: Yeah, but then they banned all the good Anarch cards
As a punitive reprisal
guy.patching: Well there’s that
I think Shaper is the best runner faction to be sure
ouroboros: You don’t sound bitter at all Chris
guy.patching: I couldn’t imagine why
nemamiah: Apocalypse decks are probably playable again
I’m not sure what faction it’s in though
guy.patching: There are many ways to apoc.
callmedutch: don’t spoil my tech Chris
ouroboros: I think Criminal may compete with Shaper for top pick
but there’s a huge amount of uncertainty here in my opinion
because corps are so diverse it’s pretty unclear what the best runner is
circadia: Doesn’t that benefit Shaper?
Diverse corps want flexible runners
ouroboros: Not with half the answers on restricted
guy.patching: Artist Colony / Fan Site is great
But as I say, Scarcity bothers me with that
ouroboros: I’m not sure shapers are inherently more flexible than crim?
circadia: I think they are, SMCs and lots of tech programs like D4, Imp, Misdirection
ouroboros: Oh yeah Misdirection is looking ok isn’t it
circadia: God yeah
It’s almost autoinclude in a Shaper deck tbh
nemamiah: Yeah, I like Shapers right now just because of that flexibility
guy.patching: Plus they’re the best faction to clot lock
Because its 2 influence and you’re going to have Sac Cons around
ouroboros: I like how of those 4 pieces of shaper tech you mentioned 2 are shaper
circadia: That’s why shapers are good! One ofs and SMCs!
guy.patching: One offs in resources too –
callmedutch: I think D4 is pretty bad in Shaper right now, no?
like Clone chip and Aesop are on the list
guy.patching: I think you see a lot more scavenge around
Even Test Run in a pinch
nemamiah: Yeah, I think that might be right Guy
Scavenge, that is
ouroboros: I would really like to build a shaper toolbox deck
but econ is so hard with Aesop on restricted
circadia: I think as Weyland’s stock goes up, so does Shaper
Because SacCon for Skorp and Clot for Titan
ouroboros: your puny clot cannot stop me!
I run THREE CVS! AHAHAHAHAHAHA!
circadia: Bonus round! Let’s talk mini-factions – buy/sell/hold?
Adam is going up in the world baby
ouroboros: I don’t have any stock in minfactions and I’m never going to acquire any
so I guess that’s a hold
nemamiah: Zero to zero is a hold, right?
guy.patching: I agree with Ruf… hmm.. uh oh
callmedutch: Adam has a HQI people and Jackson is gone
circadia: Chris and Dan have one track minds
Sunny is ok, isn’t she?
People always claim Sunny is ok
then she turns out to have a 50 card deck size
and no good cards
circadia: Just run Quality t… oh
guy.patching: For every person who says “Shaper lock is a problem” they need to tell me why Sunny doesn’t count
nemamiah: Does she do anything that Shaper doesn’t?
ouroboros: Guy, one word: SMC
callmedutch: just run build script
nemamiah: Shapers get to play a bunch of really good green cards. Sunny gets to play Another Day, Another Paycheck
guy.patching: Sunny has 25 influence to play with
And a way to avoid the worst ice in faction
I’m not saying she is AS good as Shaper
callmedutch: Apex will get their new 5 cost filppy card
guy.patching: But between her, and Adam gaining AND Apex gaining
Minifaction is a definite buy
circadia: I guess Adam is quite happy about less assets to force-trash
But no Temujin makes him a hold for me
ouroboros: the 25 inf in the minifactions isn’t actually an advantage
because their card pools are so ridiculously small
nemamiah: Yeah, I tried to work out the effective influence of mini factions once, when you take in to account all the stuff they’re missing out on. It came out at about -5
guy.patching: But the thing is you have to compare to the world we had before
Sunny was a completely joke against decks with insane tempo
And no decks have insane tempo anymore
Adam was a joke against decks that wanted to fight an econ war
And fewer do now, so he’s better
circadia: Corps are definitely slower, that’s true
If you add like three turns on to their average win, Sunny might come out ok
nemamiah: Plenty of Corps will try to go fast though
ouroboros: Sunny will just fold to any weyland
circadia: Yeah, Rush is also back
ouroboros: well maybe not gaga
guy.patching: Sure, but the fast decks used to draw like… 4-5 cards on their turn
callmedutch: Rush rush rush
it makes me so sad when Anarchs inject the right answer
circadia: Finally, as with the corps, let’s think over/unders for runners at Worlds 2017.
Magnum Opus will be the restricted card in 40% of decks on day 2 at this year’s worlds – over/under?
guy.patching: Under, by a little
ouroboros: waaaaay under
callmedutch: like 10%
nemamiah: 10% is my gut feeling as well
ouroboros: that seems in the right ballpark to me (edited)
circadia: I feel like Anarchs might be leaning on it a lot
Frantic is still a thing
ouroboros: Anarchs, the faction that will be least represented on day 2? 😉
guy.patching: I don’t know how many of those will make Day 2
circadia: Oh hush
There’s a 10% chance that a mini-faction runner will be in the top cut at worlds – over/under?
100% under, in fact
nemamiah: Is zero less than ten?
guy.patching: Under, but not zero
More like 5
And it’ll be Adam
ouroboros: I mean real talk obviously not actually zero
but less than 1 percent
guy.patching: Adam with a “5% of the time” average run with a really solid corp day
I can see that happening one time in every 20 or so times we run that simulation
circadia: Guess Rufus is still thinking about his Special Reports and the glory days of Anarch, so we’ll move on
circadia: There’s a 50% chance that we’ll be getting full art Aumakua next year as it appears in the winning world’s deck – over/under?
ouroboros: yeah over
guy.patching: Oh the Turtle.. Under
ouroboros: Aumakua has so much representation across all factions
circadia: I had to end it acknowledging our new Turtle overlords
Like it might not even be that good but EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT IT
guy.patching: I had to look up the card
ouroboros: I struggle to believe that less than 50% of the decks in the cut will be on aumakua
nemamiah: All hail The Great and Powerful Turtle
guy.patching: Because it’s actually called “turtle”
ouroboros: the only way this could happen imo is if some ridiculously good runner which doesn’t want turtle emerges
and everyone switches to that
which seems reasonably unlikely
circadia: I bloody hope the final match is Aumakua vs. Moonspam CI
Just so we can have both players installing Turtles
and the commentators confusing everyone at home
nemamiah: Hot turtle on turtle action
circadia: Yeah… I think that’s definitely a wrap
Continue the discussion at forum.stimhack.com